I may have posted about this before, but it's worth a re post because not even I can find the original post.
I think many of us have been through the chat room phase. I am glad it is lost it's lustre in popularity for the most part. They are fraught with lurkers; molesters; and a mix of really good people. The problem is that it is difficult to tell the difference.
I have made two really good online friendships that have lasted for more than four years though.
Tim is in his fifties, married, bi. We catch up at least once a week with each other. He supported me through my divorce, never judging. There was seldom any suggestive talk - even though he was into it lol. We have chatted on the phone a few times, and I once nearly got to meet him as there was a conference in his city that I was to attend. Unfortunately it was cancelled at the last minute. I supported him through his wife's cancer treatment and his resulting financial crises.
Matt found me on some random site. Again, we still chat once a week. He is in his twenties and lives with his bf in Oz. I won't deny that our relationship went as far as one can go online. We spent hour after hour chatting. I was (still am I guess) in love with him, and him with me.
Again, I came very close to meeting with him on a business trip, but I simply ran out of time. We will meet one day though, it is just one of those things.
I met V online on a local gay dating site. We have also been chatting for over three years. We also catch up every now and then. The difference here, is that V lives literally half an hour's drive from me. The funny thing about our 'meeting' online, is that he mistook me for someone he knew, and struck up a conversation with me quite randomly. After he had realised his mistake, we laughed a lot about it, we still do. V was then just nineteen, and when he realised he had struck up this convo with some 'old' dude, it was hilarious. Nevertheless, whenever we saw each other online, we would spend some time chatting about arb stuff.
We have threatened to try meet and have coffee a few times, but circumstances have always come between us. But it is one of those things that is just perfectly fine. These days we just swop hi's in passing, he still teases me about my age, and I still laugh at his 'up and down' relationship with his so-called bf....
But then there was Josh. Just another typical young man battling with his sexuality and wanting to come out to his parents. He was 26, and worked a cattle farm with his father. He was a friend of Tim's, and pretty soon, we both spent many days giving him support leading up to his coming out to his parents. Pretty much the same as a lot of bloggers in our community here.
It should have gone well. He was close to his parents, lived in a country where acceptance levels are high, not a terribly religious background, not promiscous or fem in any way. Just a good sweet guy, salt of the earth.
His coming out never went well. His father beat him up. He left his house (which was a few miles from his parents place), packed his van and headed off to the city. Tim and I were in a panic, not knowing how to get hold of him, wondering all the time what had happened. We managed to chat a couple of times when he was online at an internet cafe. He was sleeping in his truck, had been mugged and lost some of the cash he had taken with him.
After a few days, his dad called him to say he is sorry, and that he had reacted badly and asked him to return home. Pensively, he made the trip back home, and after meeting with his parents, he once again disappeared offline. A week later, his brother - out of the blue - mailed both Tim and I to tell us that Josh had asked him to mail us to say he was okay because he knew we would be worried. He had tried to take his own life and was in hospital with no way to go online.
Shortly after that, he was back, in better spirits, and planned to go stay with a friend for a week while he figured out a way forward. He had decided to go back to college and finish his degree and basically get out the farming business and on with his own life.
Sadly, a week later, his brother once again mailed us to let us know that they had buried Josh. He did go up to the friends house for a while, but returned early and took his own life in his own house. His brother had found him only two days later.
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that as much as we think just because some of us are out and everyone is okay with it, we can never fully understand the particular situations other people may be in. I for one am certainly not a qualified therapist with the necessary tools and experience to offer advice. I learnt that from Josh.
So forgive me if I sometimes seem distant when there are cries for advice. It's not that I don't care - quite the opposite. I can be a shoulder to cry on, and can offer love and support. But advice? I am wary of offering, unless I have known you for a long time, or perhaps have met irl...
Peace and love...
Happy Thanksgiving!
1 year ago

How tragic!
ReplyDeleteIt is a good caution about offering advice. But idk, don't a lot of people want advice? Should we avoid giving the voice of our experience because occasionally things may turn out badly — when most of the time they turn out okay?
Part of what I was taught about giving advice is that you have to be able to read what the person wants to be told to do it well.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it's clear that none of us can do this so we fly a gentle kite or two and see if it's taken up.
Oh yes, advice can go very wrong and we have to be prepared to live with that. But to turn away one crying in the wilderness for lack of support or direction is not something many of us can do.
How awful. That made me cry.
ReplyDeleteThanks - we've chatted about this before but thanks for the rest of the story. I know that must not have been easy.
ReplyDeleteVery poignant, and timely post.
ReplyDelete@Ng. "the voice of our experience" isn't necesssarily the same as giving advice. Done appropriately, it's about offering choices based on our own experiences, rather than saying "this is what you should do".
@Micky. Very good points. "read what the person wants to be told". This is about listening, and actually hearing what is being said (not always the same thing). Like the "gentle kite" analogy. Very useful in terms of judging what's really being asked for.
Sure, it can all go wrong, and that's hard to live with - but to do nothing? - for me that's even harder to live with.
Sethy, the last paragraph sums it up. Love and support are more effective than direct advice. Most people asking for advice are looking for confirmation of what they already "know", but maybe feel uncertain about how to achieve it. They already know the answer, but lack the experience to see how they get there. Counselling is hard enough irl, face to face. It's incredibly difficult in a virtual environment. No body language, facial expression, voice intonation - nothing but the written word to go on.
That's a very sad story :(
ReplyDeleteYour last two paragraphs really give me pause to think about my own involvement in some blog-advice. Have to consider it more carefully at times.
*hugs*
Damn dude, tough stuff man... thanks for sharing
ReplyDelete@naturgesetz... I agree, but decided my mission with this blog is to show my own life so that others may take what they will from my own experiences. I am not saying no advice should be offered, but I for one am personally wary because of what happened to Josh. I feel partly responsible in a small way.
ReplyDelete@Micky... Yes indeed. Often people will only take the advice they want to hear, even if they are offered it in and amongst other stuff.
@Mr HCI... I cried a lot.
@Baz... I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem here is that we have no further cues, other than written ones. Over many posts, MSN chats and emails swopped, one would be able to get a better sense of a situation/personality. You said all good things :) Thanks
@Sethy... I guess that's my message: Just pause and think. These are real people out there punching keyboards, from different backgrounds, cultures, religions and family 'situations'. It's easy to forget how easily we can influence - one way or the other. But on the other side, many blog to get support, affirmation, some company within the same interest group, to feel part of a group outside of which is just loneliness. These are things we can constructively do positively; make other feel that they are not alone. By sharing experiences, opens up the possibility that we are NOT alone in our day to day struggles. As a teenager, I thought I was the only one going through what I did. I would have coped much better knowing I wasn't.
@Randy... take it easy man, and get better. We missed you. Hope things are going well!
100% Agree with "But advice? I am wary of offering, unless I have known you for a long time, or perhaps have met irl..." :)
ReplyDeleteHope your doing a better!
B xo
a very sad tale Sethy.
ReplyDeletegiving advice can be very tricky, especially when they are just words on a screen. im can be really frustrating and unfulfilling
torchy!